Transcript from an interview with Judy Blume

Below is an edited transcript from Reading Rockets' interview with Judy Blume. The transcript is divided into the following clips:

Judy Blume

Developing a love of reading

Hi, I'm Judy Blume and I write books. When I was about four, my mother took me every week to the public library in Elizabeth, New Jersey, where I climbed up what seemed like 100 rickety steps — outdoor steps — to get to the children's room. Once I was there, and my mother left me. She was there, but it seems to me anyway that she stayed out of it and I sat on the floor and I picked the books off the shelves.

Before I ever opened them, I sniffed them. I loved the way they smelled, so warm and ripe and wonderful. Then I would open them and you know to this day, when one of my books comes (a new book that's just been published), the first thing I do is sniff it. They don't smell the same anymore, but that printer's ink and mixed with all the children who had read it before me. So I learned to love books early on.

It's funny because I don't really remember being read to. I don't think my parents' generation knew to read to children as much as I did and my children do to read to theirs. My house was filled with books and we had bookshelves flanking the fireplace in the living room and I would sit on the floor there at 12 and take the books off the shelves and read them. I discovered Salinger and Bellow and O'Hara and Rand. I discovered so many wonderful writers. I'm sure I had no idea what I was reading, but I loved reading these books.

Even if I didn't get it all, I got enough. I got a taste of what the adult world was all about and that is really what I was interested in by the time I was 12 and 13. I don't want to say that my parents didn't read to me because clearly they did and Madeline was my favorite book — my first great love. I memorized that book and so clearly someone was reading to me. It's odd that I don't remember that experience of being read to when I was small, but there was a coziness in the family and books were a huge part of it — both my parents were readers.

It was my mother who handed me the Diary of a Young Girl, Anne Frank's diary. She never said, "You have to read this." This was long before these books were part of a middle school curriculum. It was my mother who gave me To Kill a Mockingbird. We shared books. We didn't really communicate. We didn't talk a lot, at all really.

My father was the great communicator. My father was the storyteller. He was a wonderful storyteller and he was always asked to emcee his dental society dinners because he was funny and he could tell jokes and he was very good at it and everybody loved my father. My friends came to the house and loved to be with my father. But from them, I think I developed a love of reading because they were always reading.

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Writing realistic fiction

When you write fiction, even if you think you're not writing autobiographical fiction, you are always drawing on your experiences and I say that I come back over and over and over to the early years of my life, especially nine through twelve. That's a decade that I return to again and again. I remember it so clearly. My mother used to say, "Just leave me out of your books!"

I always thought that I did except for one autobiographical novel, which is Starring Sallie J. Freedman As Herself. My mother was not happy about that book, really. She was very private, very shy. She never told me not to write it. She never said, "I don't like this book." But she did say, "Just leave me out your books."

Nevertheless, when you're writing about children, most of them have families. Especially in my books, which are very much about reality. There was a mother in almost every book and it wasn't my mother, but she always thought that her friends would think it was. She wasn't always happy about that.

It's so funny when you write fiction. Everyone always assumes that you're writing about them. "You put me in that book!" In my wildest dreams, I never thought of that person when I was writing that character. But when people know you, they see themselves or they think they do, even when it's not true.

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Farley Drexel Hatcher

Fudge was actually based on my son Larry when he was a toddler. He wasn't as outrageous as Fudge; I mean it's fiction. But he did suck four fingers on his left hand and he did have little temper tantrums like all toddlers do. He did want to eat his supper under the table and so I let him.

I can remember a friend walking in once and saying, "Judy, you better stop him from doing that. He is going to grow up to be so weird." I am here to tell you that he's all grown up and he's a lovely man and he eats his dinner at the table with everyone else. We used to say, "Larry is an interesting toddler." You know what? He's an interesting man.

The Fudge books were written over so many years that eventually I had to change the electronics in them because it goes from Peter's in fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade. Yet I wrote them I think between Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing and Super Fudge was I don't know — eight years, then maybe 10 years, 12 years? I don't know, a very long time.

Yes, Larry was all grown up. Fudge, of course, took on his own life. I mean, by the time I wrote Super Fudge, Larry was a teenager, I think. While Larry was the original inspiration and kids love it when they meet Larry and they say, "You were really Fudge?" They look way up because he's very tall. He says, "Yeah. I really was Fudge." He likes it now.

Fudge took on its own life and I put them altogether. I brought all the characters together for Fudge-a-mania and I said, "I'm never, ever doing this again," and I meant it. I married off Sheila's grandfather, Fuzzy Senior, to Peter's grandmother, Muriel. And I said, "This is it. The grand finale."

Then what happened? I had a grandson and his favorite character was Fudge. We used to have to play the Fudge game when he was little. I had to be Fudge and he got to be Peter, drove the family crazy, but Elliott loved it, and so I had to write a book and one more Fudge book to dedicate to Elliott. Now truly the Fudge series, that's it. There isn't anymore. I don't want Fudge to ever get any older.

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I'm never doing this again

I think there's real danger in being aware of your audience as you write. That's like having a censor on one shoulder and the critic on the other shoulder. You've got to go into that other place when you're writing. The process for me, whether it's writing for very young children or middle graders or teens or an adult audience—the process is exactly the same and it is always impossibly difficult and painful.

Every time I say, "I'm never doing this again," my husband humors me and he says, "That's fine. Okay. You don't have to. No problem." Weeks or months or in some cases years go by and I long to get into that little room again with just my characters for company and that's how it seems to work.

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I thought I was weird

I think we write what comes naturally and what comes spontaneously. Ror me, that is real life. Maybe it goes back to when I was young. I wanted to read books about real life. I was so curious about real life and how it worked and what it was like for other people. I always thought I was the only one and because I had these stories running around inside my head from way back, I thought I was weird. I never told anyone about those stories.

Although I grew up reading the Oz books and I liked them very much, my favorite books growing up were the books of Maud Hart Lovelace, the Betsy-Tacy books. I could never write fantasy. It's not how I think. Science fiction is not how I think. Mystery, I love to read it. I love to see a movie, a good mystery, but it's not something I'm ever going to write.

I certainly never thought I would write historical fiction. I don't think of this project as historical fiction because, of course, it's in my lifetime, but I realize that it actually took place a very long time ago in the fifties. It's an idea that came out of the blue — very different from the way I usually get my ideas, which is I'll have a character or a situation in mind and it sits on the back burner inside my head for a very long time before that day when I feel I'm ready to sit down with it. This is an idea that came just like a bolt and it came with a plot and characters and I'm very excited about it.

I feel a little strange talking about it because there is no book yet, but I did spend several months last winter and spring doing research. Now, I have never had the pleasure of doing research and I've discovered it's fun. It's wonderful. I loved it. Then my friends, who do do research for each book, have said to me, "Yeah, Judy. The research is fun, but wait 'til you start writing the book and then tell us it's fun."

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Communicating through literature

If we want kids to love to read, we have to have a wide variety of books for them to choose from. Fear has to be fought because fear is what it's all about. I think it's fear of not wanting to talk about certain things with your children; it's fear that if my child reads this, my child will know about it. If they know about it, it might happen — as if it won't happen without your children reading about it, and this has to do with puberty, sexuality. But especially fear of new ideas — fear of ideas that maybe different from yours.

But if you can get to the place where you talk to your kids about anything, then you won't have to be afraid of what they're reading. You can read it, too. I always think that's a really good thing. My daughter and I always communicated through books. She was very private; I'm not. She was very private and there were things that maybe she didn't want to talk to me about, but through books, we could talk about these things. We still share books. She's the mother of my 18-year-old grandson and she and I are still sharing books. "Did you read this one?" "Oh, read that. I think you'll really enjoy it." It's wonderful to communicate through literature.

It's really interesting because when I started to write, I felt that the books that I were writing — Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret, ;Then Again, Maybe I Won't, Deenie — I felt that they were very private books. They were books that I imagined a child would curl up with alone. They would never be used in schools. When they started to find their way into schools, I was a little bit like, "Oh! Oh!"

Now I think it's great. I love it! I think though, if a teacher reads Blubber aloud to a fourth or fifth grade class — good, that's good. But you have to be ready, as a teacher, to talk about the characters, the incidents in that book. You have to be ready to bring it all out into the open.

I used to correspond with a teacher — he was a fifth grade teacher. He wrote to me and he said every year he started out reading Blubber to his fifth grade class. Through all the years that he taught, he never had an incident in his classroom where a group of kids victimized another kid because it was out in the open and if anything started, it was in the open; they could talk about it.

Then came a time when he was ordered to remove Blubber from his classroom and other books along with it, not all of them mine. He's not teaching anymore and this to me is a real shame that someone who was a wonderful teacher is not teaching anymore because he was told that he couldn't use the books that he wanted to use, that meant something to the kids in his class.

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Judy has strong feelings about Accelerated Reader

I love it when I hear from teachers that they've read the Fudge books aloud to their kids and how this has started kids on the path to wanting to read. "I want more funny books. Who else writes funny books like this?" There are certainly many, many, many wonderful books to recommend. I love to hear that they can use a book like Blubber or another one of my books in the classroom and that this works. Or guide a child who may be in need of a book about a certain subject to that book.

What I don't like and what I really don't like — intensely hate, you could say — is the Accelerated Reader program, even though many of my books are in that program, because they rate books, not on emotional content or emotional readiness. They're rated by machine — how many words in a sentence, how long is a paragraph. Nothing to do with character, nothing to do with subject and again, nothing to do with emotional readiness. So that a book like Then Again, Maybe I Won't may have fourth reading level. I get letters from angry parents who say, "My child read your book in Accelerated Reader," and that's a terrible thing.

"He wasn't ready. He's reading on a fourth grade level, but he's only in second grade." Well, what do I say? I try to explain this and I encourage the parent to go to the school and explain why Accelerated Reader doesn't work. It's an easy way for a teacher to run a reading program. It's not the way I think, it's not the way that I would hope that a teacher would run a reading program. Don't take the easy way out, I would say to teachers.

Another thing that I think is that kids shouldn't be penalized for reading a book that's rated younger then what their reading level is supposed to be, nor should they be prevented from reading way beyond. They should be encouraged to just read and if they're reading a picture book and they're in fifth grade because they really want to read this picture book or it's funny, why not?

What's wrong with that? They will read more widely if we allow them to and we encourage them to and we don't reward them for how many books they've read, so that they'll read more books that are short than one book that's long, that's not what it's about.

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Truck or Trunk? Friend or Fiend?

I loved school. I loved going to school and I remember every teacher from kindergarten through sixth grade very, very well. I remember the other teachers, too. It's funny because there's a chapter in Friend or Fiend, which is the fourth of The Pain and Great One books, that takes place at reading circle.

When I was in first grade, I was painfully shy and I know you don't believe this about me, but I was. I was painfully shy. It was my turn to read and my teacher, who I loved, Mrs. Paulson, had to step out into the hall to talk to another teacher, but she told me to take my turn reading.

Dick and Jane I think it was. Dick and Jane actually, and they were cleaning out the attic. In cleaning out the attic, they found an old trunk and they carried this trunk downstairs. But I read it that they found an old truck and they carried the truck downstairs — a big truck. Everyone laughed at me. Of course, the picture showed a trunk, so I don't know why I misread it as truck, but I did.

I insisted that it was truck. Everyone laughed. They laughed so hard they were falling off their chairs. The more they laughed, the more I insisted it was a truck. So when I was writing the first story in Friend or Fiend, the title of it is, Ben is My Fiend and it's a story about two boys who are friends and of course it really is Ben is My Friend.

But Jake, who's reading the story, reads," Ben is my fiend. I'm glad he's my fiend because…" and he goes on and he continues to read 'fiend.' And the other kids in the group are just laughing hysterically. Now when I've asked some first graders, "Do you know what a fiend is," most of them say, "No." So they will learn, I say, by the time they're finished reading Friend or Fiend. They will know what a fiend is because the book is about how friends are sometimes friends, but sometimes they seem like fiends because they do fiendish things. So that story goes back to my first grade experience.

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Teacher appreciation

My favorite, wonderful Uncle Bernie taught English in the same high school that I attended, but I couldn't have him because I was his niece and I know I missed out on something wonderful. But I also had a wonderful English teacher in high school and he encouraged us to be creative and never laughed at us, but laughed with us.

He had some wonderful books on his reading list that we could choose from. His name was Al Komanshane (ph.). We wrote ballads in that class and I still remember. I loved writing ballads so much that I kept writing them. I can still sing of them, but no, I won't. I sat at the piano and I played those ballads and just enjoyed the process so much and also loved some of the books that I read in that class — books that we weren't all reading together as a class book, but because of that list that he gave us, books that I discovered, writers that I discovered.

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The question that makes authors cringe

Kids always ask me, "Well, how do you get your ideas?" Of course, the question that makes all of us cringe. Older ones will ask, "Where do you find your inspiration?" Well, inspiration's everywhere, but there's nothing wrong with being inspired by something you've read. That's great! Why not be inspired by something you've read?

When I was starting out, I went to the library and I came home with armloads of books and I would divide them into piles. "I don't want to write books like these. These are boring. I do want to write books like these." I was inspired by Beverly Cleary. I loved those books. They inspired me. I was inspired by the earliest books of E.L. Konigsburg because at that time, she had only written her first few books. Nothing wrong with that.

I was at Yale the other day talking to a group and they weren't English majors. I mean, it was just a group of young people who came to hear me, obviously people who grew up reading my books. One of them said, "But every time I start to write something on my own, it sounds like something I've read." I say, "You know what? We all start out that way. It takes time to find our own voices. Nothing wrong with imitation, the highest form of flattery." Through that, you will eventually, if you're lucky, you will find your own voice and your own way of telling stories.

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The writing process: torture, typewriters and editors

The editorial relationship is so important. I don't know where I would be today without Dick Jackson who was my first and most significant editor. He took me from Iggy's House and Margaret and Then Again, Maybe I Won't all the way through Here's to You, Rachel Robinson. I think that was the last book we did together. So a lot of books, forever, many of my favorites of my own books.

He taught me by asking me questions about my characters. He taught me to dig deeper and deeper and apparently he works different with every writer he's ever worked with, but for me, it was always questions and his questions unleashed whole new places to go. He was just wonderful. There's no way I could ever thank him. I've worked with many other editors since then and each one works in a different way.

With Summer Sisters, I have Carol Barren to thank for making that book work or making that book happen — that's a book that almost killed me. That was the most painful book I ever wrote — three years and 20 something drafts, literally. That was the book that made me say, "I will never, ever do this again," and I really meant it.

I was 60 when that book came out and I thought, "It's time to stop." Now it's 10 years later and I'm really going strong, so I'm glad for that, but editors are very important to the process. My process is a strange one and the way that I explain it to kids… well maybe it's not so strange. Maybe I just think it's strange. The first draft for me is pure torture — there's no question about that.

I had so much inside me. I had so much creative energy and I needed to let it out so badly that the first few books I think just poured out, but that was then. For many, many, many, many years now, I have found first drafts to be torture, to getting something out. Once I have a first draft out, then I like it. I like the rewriting. I'm a reviser more then a first draft writer.

The best always comes out when I have pencil in my hand and I'm working on the first draft and it just, good things will start to happen, second, third, fourth, fifth. I tell it to kids this way, that for me a first draft is getting the pieces to a jigsaw puzzle, is having that big piece of wood or cardboard and cutting out all these little pieces and mixing them all up.

The second draft is trying to put them together and then I have to sand them down and make them smooth. Then I paint them wonderful colors and then I have to polish the whole puzzle so it looks really pretty and finished. I go through at least five drafts. It's a little harder to keep track of now that I work on a computer.

When it was a typewriter — yes, I did write on typewriters. Some people don't even know that. My son recently saw carbon paper — onion skin from carbon paper. He's 46 years old and he was sitting with my grandson who's 18 and he said, "Look, Elliott! Look," he said. "This is what they used to do," as if it was 3,000 years ago. To them, of course, it is.

But anyway, since I work on a computer and I have for many, many, many years, it's much harder to keep track of how many drafts you're really going through because you keep doing it over and over. That's not good. It was better and I'm trying to encourage myself to go back to get through a draft, get through another draft and to do that, I'm now printing out on three-hole paper and putting it in a notebook so that I can keep track of the drafts as they go. I think that's much, much better for me. I was getting lost in wasting paper, reams of paper. So this is much better, the way that I did it when I started out using a typewriter.

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New generations of readers

Reading was so important to me and I so wanted my children to love reading that when my daughter was born 48 years ago and she was in a little infant seat, I would read to her in her little infant seat. So I don't know if that's why she became the world's greatest reader, but I read to my kids all the time, but not as much as we then read to my grandson.

My grandson truly grew up, you know it's another generation, truly grew up being read to just constantly — memorized books, listened to books on tape, just loved it. I can remember lying down on the bed with him when he was about to go to sleep and we would bargain. He would say, "Seven books," and I would say, "Four books." He would say, "Six books," and then we would agree on five books and he was always asleep of course by the time we got to the fifth book.

He even spoke like a book at one point. He said, "What would like for lunch today," Nonie said. "I would like peanut butter," Elliott answered. So it was great. It was great. Books were very important to him. But like a lot of boys today, he went through a little period there where he was less interested in books and more interested in electronics. But if you just leave the books around for them, they will come back to them. He has read some very good books lately, I'm happy to say.

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Excerpt from Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing

Hi, I'm Judy Blume and I'm reading from my book, Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing, Chapter 1: the Big Winner.

I won Dribble at Jimmy Fargo's birthday party. All of the other guys got to take home goldfish in little plastic bags. I won him because I guessed there were 348 jellybeans in Mrs. Fargo's jar. "Really, there were 423," she told us later. Still, my guess was closest.

"Peter Warren Hatcher is the big winner," Mrs. Fargo announced. At first I felt bad that I didn't get a goldfish, too. Then Jimmy handed me a glass bowl. Inside there was water and three rocks. A tiny green turtle was sleeping on the biggest rock. All the other guys looked at their goldfish. I knew what they were thinking. They wished they could have tiny green turtles, too.

I named my turtle Dribble while I was walking home from Jimmy's party. I live in an old apartment building, but it's got one of the best elevators in New York City. There are mirrors all around. You can see yourself from every angle. There's a soft cushion bench to sit on if you're too tired to stand and the elevator operator's name is Henry Bevelheimer. He lets us call him Henry because Bevelheimer's very hard to say.

He knows everybody in the building. He's that smart. He even knows I'm nine and in fourth grade. I showed him Dribble right away. "I won him at a birthday party," I said. Henry smiled. "Your mother's going to be surprised."

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"Wear the old coat and buy the new book." — Austin Phelps